And where I try to tone down my swearing, because I just realized how much I was writing like that. Unless there are votes for it to continue.
Anyway, speaking of North America, there are two main "quality" dog registries where the parenthood of your dog is guaranteed. In the US, that registry is the AKC, American Kennel Club, http://www.akc.org. In Canada, that is the CKC, Canadian Kennel Club, http://www.cke.ca, not to be confused with the CKC, Continental Kennel Club, which I refer to to as the ConKC since it fits.
Dogs can easily be dual registered in CKC and AKC. The CKC accepts more breeds, I believe, at this point, but the AKC's Foundation Stock Service (FSS) has more breeds than ever, but not necessarily the same breeds. The CKC has the Barbet and that's nowhere to be seen in the AKC. There are something close to 200 breeds in the US, and close to 450 or maybe a bit over internationally, to give you an idea of what you can choose from.
In the AKC, new breeds have to hang around in the FSS for a while once they've been through the hoops that the AKC asks of them, and they sit there while those hoops are held for a while. After one to three years, the AKC decides whether to give them full AKC status. The AKC takes over ownership of the studbook (which is the history of the mating of the dogs, to say it simply. Studbooks write down names of sires, dams, the amount of puppies they have. Nowadays, some studbooks kept by breed clubs even include health information in them. Notice I said breed clubs). They make sure that the dog is truly a distinct breed, and they specifically say no labradoodles or cockapoos or puggles, ever, or even those hideous mi-ki things with their shaved heads and feet, since crosses of two distinct breeds or even a dozen distinct breeds do not a breed make. While in the FSS, as things move forward the dogs are allowed to compete in "Companion Events" which are things like agility. Once the breed can do those, they may be allowed in "Performance Events" if that's what the breed does, like hunting.
No where in the AKC do you see where quality is required. All new breeds entering the AKC have to have a three generation pedigree. All existing breeds in the AKC just have to mate with an existing AKC dog to create more AKC dogs. Which is why just because AKC is tacked on to a dog's advertisement, it doesn't mean anything. The AKC does cut off bad breeders when they go out and visit after several complaints, but they don't have enough people to do that everywhere in the world, and millers have essentially given up the AKC name because the general public believes that any registry tacked onto the dogs is just as good as AKC. "Look, look, my dogs are REGISTERED!".
There is one other major registry in the US, the UKC, United Kennel Club. It's not like the CKC or the AKC. It's mainly there for performance events, and mainly for performance breeds. Some terriers are lumped into the terrier group, others are lumped into the companion group. Yorkies are stuck in the companion group, while Jack Russells are in the terrier group. Looking at the site, they do not state how many generations back the pedigrees must be, nor how long the dog has been a distinct breed. AKC expects proof that the dog has been a distinct breed for decades. The UKC though, hosts probably more events for dogs to compete in than the AKC, and you don't have to be UKC registered to do them. The UKC also holds conformation shows, but that's tricky. Many times in many breeds, there's simply no dog to show over. Points are gotten by winning over other dogs in that breed group (such as gun dog or herding or guardian dog, according to the UKC's breakup of breeds). So there's no true comparison to other dogs of the same breed, and you can get a UKC championship on your dog without ever showing over the breed of dog you own. So, want to compete more often in hunting/lure coursing/tracking/weight pull/ terrier races etc? Look for UKC sponsored shows. Just remember that a UKC breed can mean that you're getting a made up breed of only a couple generations back, since I see no where in their standard to avoid that.
Some may have heard of the IKC. International Kennel Club, which holds a huge show in Illinois every year. This is just a club that is part of the AKC, and is specific to Illlinois. In 07, over 100,000 visitors came to see 10,000 dogs show. It's huge. And a few years ago, I won two majors two days in a row at the show, thank you very much! My doggie is niiiice. He wakes me with kisses, er, he washes the morning grease off with his tongue. Actually, dog shows are often about luck and connections, but not always. My own story proves that, and I'll get to that in yet another post. Please don't confuse this http://www.ikcdogshow.com with this horror of a pet shop in NY http://internationalkennel.com/ which has at least one other website for a second store in NY, or with The International Kennel Club Consortium, for which I was unable to find a website, which is one of those "scam" registries.
The CKC I know less about, but the breed I'm in has many Canadian fanciers so I've gained some information by osmosis, since the website is not as forthcoming with information as the AKC site is. It seems a bit more friendly towards registering specific dogs from another reputable registry (more internationally than the country below Canada, and not talking simply about the AKC. I don't know if the UKC would qualify, but I'll ask). They were ahead of the AKC in giving guidelines to avoid petshop puppies, and they seem much more quick to make changes for the welfare of the dogs. But, again, a CKC on the dog's papers doesn't mean quality. It just means that it's really truly that breed.
Unless the breeders lied.
You just can't rely on those three little letters when choosing a dog. These registries were never set up to watch for the health of the animals. That's not their purpose, and that is what many people seem to misunderstand. The letters do not guarantee anything about the health or behavior of the dog your get. Letters != quality. Repeat that mantra when you go about looking for a dog. And, maybe shockingly, there are dogs that are high quality, well bred, known pedigree, in a studbook, that are not recognized by the AKC or CKC that I would personally be thrilled to own.
Note: my own shorthand for a dog that has been bred with health and temperament in mind, including any and all health tests possible and appropriate for the breed, is the word quality.
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42 comments:
Thank you for the explanation! I am reading tho not commenting a lot yet. Keep up the good work!
Oh, a friend has given me the perfect comback to the idiots on freecycle or craigslist who say "If no one takes xxxx, s/he will have to go to the pound!"
I have been replying "Please take them to the vet to be PTS, our pound is a high kill shelter full of diseases and it is better than a weeks of suffering while smelling death and fear. While you are there, have your dog FIXED!"
When I picked out my beautiful,darling border collie, her breeder informed me that she did not register her dogs with AKC as they did not represent the stock dog type of border collies and she did not want her dogs associated with the fluffy fat conformation type of border collies. So, my girl's litter is registered with the American Stock Dog Association - or something like that. I never registered my dog - don't care, doesn't matter to me. She's lovely unregistered. She's spayed and has been since 6 months. People always want a pup from her, and I usually denounce them. My Mexican Growling Weiner Doodle will be registered with the NTAA (nasty terrier of America Association) :)))
4thehorses, that's actually part of the third post in the dog registries series. It shall not be ignored!
Hey, 4thehorses, can I register my JRT/ChineseCrested/poo with the NTAA too? He *thinks* he is Big & Bad....
(yes, he was neutered at 4 months, came in as a rescue...)
Way long time ago, when I was a youngin, we got our first Australian Shepherd. Fell in love with her and the breed! Got into showing and breeding. My parents also got very active in the ASCA, and were some of the folks who fought HARD to keep the Aussie OUT OF THE AKC!!!!!! Well, as things go, the folks who think the AKC is God's gift to Dogs, and who, more importantly, wanted the money an AKC registered Aussie could get from the ignorant public, won. Now Aussies are giant fluffy things with beautiful, floaty, high headed trots that wouldn't know what to do with a sheep if it butted them! Plus, now they have to be a certian size, color, head set, etc., or they just won't do!
Gone was the little blue dog with the tough herding instincts,...
So, 20 years ago, my parents started doing the same thing with mini Aussies. And of course, now the AKC is looking at them! gah! (BTW, Your list of reputable breeders? My parents did every one of those things! yay!)
Of course, ~there's~ another post entirely,.... NAS? NAMAS? MASCA? NAMASCUSA? Can there BE any politics anywhere in the world worse than a dog or horse club?!??
We don't show or breed. Why? After 10 years, they STILL can't figure out who we are supposed to be! I just wish ASCA would go back to letting smaller Aussies be considered Aussies, and tell the AKC to stuff it. It's the size most Aussies were 30 years ago,...
I have more to say, but I am running out of the patience needed to properly write something coherient,...
BTW,
Mexican Growling Weiner Doodle,...
LOLOLOL!!!!!!!!
AKC Aussies can actually be any size. There is nothing in the standard that says they MUST be a certain size, and it specifically says that quality is more important than size. Which is why breeding for "mini" Aussies really annoys me. It's created a huge problem with millers and BYBs trying to get in on the small dog breed trend. The whole issue of Aussies is really complicated, and I might make that an actual full post. Also, AKC judging is influenced by trends just like horse shows are. So, if the in thing is a dog that looks a certain way, and the judge likes it, then that dog is going to win. If the judge likes smaller Aussies, those are going to win.
And I hate the people who bred their Aussies with shelties to get smaller weird looking "mini Aussies" instead of breeding quality dogs that happened to be on the smaller side, which is the responsible way to get smaller Aussies.
Note that the relatively rigid requirements for type is why Jack Russell Terriers are no longer an AKC breed. They are called Parson Russell Terriers now, because the AKC was not allowing the JRTs to be as variable as the breed needed to be to do the work that the owners wanted them to do.
on mini aussies: I have a critter that was bred as a mini aussie... got him through the aussie rescue 7 years ago. He's not 1/2 sheltie, but he definitely has some sheltie "somewhere in the woodpile" as the rescuer said. He has a sheltie-sounding bark. This is his sad history: Bred by a BYB, sold as "pet quality" because he had prick ears. purchased by young couple who had seen mini aussies and thought they were cute. of course, they knew nothing about the breed and the breeder didn't bother to tell them. He got dumped in a shelter, and pulled by an all-breed rescue. the had him for three months, then contacted the aussie rescue. They were having a tough time finding him a home as well... I'm sure he would have gone quickly if he hadn't been a small black dog. *sigh* and of course, when I went to the foster home to check out a different dog, this little black one informed me that he was my new dog, thanks very much, lets go home. heh.
but for all his prick ears and small stature, he's one hell of a herding dog. I've only worked him on sheep a couple of times, but he brings in the chickens and the neighbor at the horse barn where I ride has borrowed him to get his cows through the mud into the milking shed after a couple large storms.
I love him dearly, but I'd never breed him, even if he still had the equipment.
In my breed (Belgians), I actually like what the judges place in the UKC breed shows. I know very few dogs who *aren't* dual registered UKC/AKC, and the UKC was actually better about listening to rational arguments about whether my breed was comprised of four varieties (like it is in the rest of of the world) or separate breeds (AKC). The AKC bowed to political pressure from the AKC breed clubs (folks who didn't want to lose their place on the pile *rolls eyes*) when there was a push to change it.
UKC has much more of a working dog bent than AKC, and while I don't know about "made up" breeds, I do know they are better about accepting legitimate foreign breeds for registration than AKC is.
ASCA and some of the other stockdog registries are perfectly legitimate. BCs are my secondary breed, and if I were looking for a dog (as opposed to letting a rescue find me ;) ) AKC-registered ones from show lines would be last on my list.
I do think the AKC *is* getting better at promoting education, rescue, and responsible breeding, but they still have AKC reps at puppymill auctions (as horrible as horse auctions) ready to process the registration transfers and accept the fees. :(
As for the profanity, I think you'll reach more people if you don't use it. I personally swear like a sailor, and I'm not sure if I could do a blog on this topic without railing against fuckwits and numpties every other breath, but I think if you aren't hellbent on doing it, the dogs are probably ultimately better off if you don't. :)
I have the excellent luck of my first dog that I got as a child being an AKC-registered buff cocker spaniel bitch, whom I got for free as my cousins had cockers they were breeding.
Princess is eleven years old now, has never fit the show standards for a cocker spaniel, being too tall with a light-colored nose. She's healthy, happy, and spayed. She's prone to small benign tumors, but otherwise has lived out her life contentedly with her hair cut short, playing ball, swimming, and dozing on my mother's lap.
She's smart as hell, knows a ton of tricks, and is a great companion, but now that I'm older I am so very happy that she was never bred.
I hate that the AKC is taking in the Border Collies! They are going to take a good working dog and breed the brains right out of it! I love my unregistered BC. I will not own anything registered with AKC. My dog is 1st gen nonworking, very smart!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070901/ap_on_fe_st/mythical_chupacabra
This makes me want to drive to Texas and punch this lady in the face for her stupidity.
gunnerhorse--To be fair, there *are* some working BC breeders who *do* register with the AKC so that folks get used to seeing real working BCs (and not just the floofy poofy can't-herd-their-way-out-of-a-paper-bag showlines (many of which are from the UK and NZ).
I wouldn't avoid a dog solely because it's registered with the AKC if it had what I was looking for.
Again, it comes down to what's better for the breed. I admire the folks who fought tooth and nail to keep BCs out of AKC. Not that they are in and staying there, I appreciate the folks who will show their wispy little all-working-line dogs in conformation where they have no hope of winning just to make a point that BCs aren't necessarily just what's winning in the breed ring (those big boufy things that look like b&w Berners).
To me, papers are great, but like you said, the quality is the only way to judge and papers doesn't equal quality and doesn't mean you should breed it.
It's sad that this happens in horses and dogs (I'm from fugly horse).
Case in point... my dog is papered apparently. The rescue probably has them (they said they did, but won't release). But yeah, my dog is fugly. He's adorable and quirky... but fugly.
He's too big for a shih-tzu. He's got fugly legs and an even-worse-than-normal bite for one, too. We love him to death, but he's inbred most likely. And yeah, he has a hell of a lot of skin problems (which are also normal, but really, have to have something to do with breeding). He's not breeding (thankfully!).
And what the heck is with breeding shihzpoos (sp)? My cousin just adopeted one. He's adorable, but fugly and she didn't just buy him because they are popular. She loved him. I can bet him came from a BYB or puppy mill. I know people that spend more than I spend on a show saddle for one, though. WTF?! You will breed a dog that will have crazy skin problems and will also have no teeth past age 8. Good lord! Designer dogs are terrible.
Yeah, the designer dog thing is just idiotic on so many levels.
Speaking of which, here's an ultra bullshit "registry":
http://www.achclub.com/modules.php?
name=Breeders
moontoad are you ok?
There is one and exactly one registry that I trust dogs from as quality, and it's not an all-breed one--it's the JRTCA. Health-testing and photographs of dogs to be registered required, and only adult dogs registered? Excellent, IMO. (And as someone who prefers working dogs, I love their emphasis on working ability over conformation.) Of course as a JRTCA person I have my own bone to pick with the AKC over that god-awful "Parson" crap--particularly as I happen to like the slightly longer, stockier type.
Going into all-breed registries, I've heard some excellent things about the European FCI. You don't find many FCI-registered dogs over in the States outside of the occasional rare breed, though. I do wish that people would stop treating registration as a guarantee of quality--IMO, it's extremely worrying if the breeder doesn't care enough to register with a legit organization (and I count breed-specific groups here) but registering =/= automatic quality.
Re: designer breeding: don't get me started. Quite apart from the overpriced fugly mutts, the names make me want to cringe. Besides, some people actually seem to think that these crosses are breeds--at the rescue he came from, my unspecified terrier cross (possibly mixed with Pembroke Welsh Corgi, as he has a very Corgi body and what appears to be a natural bobtail since he still has dewclaws) was labeled a "Cockapoo mix." ....buh?
>>Oh, a friend has given me the perfect comback to the idiots on freecycle or craigslist who say "If no one takes xxxx, s/he will have to go to the pound!"
I have been replying "Please take them to the vet to be PTS, our pound is a high kill shelter full of diseases and it is better than a weeks of suffering while smelling death and fear. While you are there, have your dog FIXED!" <<
AMEN.
>>There is one and exactly one registry that I trust dogs from as quality, and it's not an all-breed one--it's the JRTCA. Health-testing and photographs of dogs to be registered required, and only adult dogs registered? Excellent, IMO.<<
Yes. My friend has a JRTCA registered bitch that she has had several litters out of. She has excellent conformation and disposition, and the pups do as well. Most notably, they don't have the psychotic, puppy-on-crack craziness that I had previously encountered in Jack Russells of the "other" type. The puppies are playful of course, but they aren't bouncing off the walls or chewing and destroying everything in sight.
Re language...well obviously my blog is full of bad language, and I don't care, that's the nature of my blog, but I do think more people read as an educational resource without it. For one thing, the language gets you blocked by all of the Net Nanny type software.
Oh and Citydog - Belgian Shepherds? I had a Belgian Tervuren - best dog I have ever owned. Amazing dog. World's best horse show dog - would lie quietly in the shade of the trailer all day and just supervise. :-)
The non-puppy-on-crack temperament is also what I've experienced of dogs out of JRTCA stock. Neither of the two JRTs I grew up with are/were registered, actually--the male is very badly bred, but extremely sweet, and was purchased before my family knew better, while our bitch was a hair too short to make the cut (though she was out of working shortie JRTCA-registere parents). Our bitch had that active-without-being-a-total-loony temperament to her, too. It helped that we actually exercised both dogs, trained them, and socialized them, of course.
Which brings me to another suggestion for the blog: god-awful mismatches. I'm thinking the sort who buy a BC and expect it to come perfectly trained, or expect a JRT to sit about the house and require no effort. Do these people do ANY research?
FHotD, you rock on multiple levels. :)
As for FCI registered dogs (and there is a bullshit registry that uses that acronym, but the real one is the Fédération Cynologique Internationale at http://www.fci.be It's more of an organising body for the national registries of some 84 countries. (Read the "About Us" section at that URL if you're interested.)
I think we see so many good FCI dogs because they're usually imports to the US (and folks generally don't go to the trouble and expense of importing crap dogs for a breeding program), and if I recall correctly, the AKC will issue AKC papers for FCI dogs that meet certain criteria in terms of being previously registered in particular foreign registries (most if not all of which are FCI member organizations).
Some breeds and/or some countries actually insist their dogs pass evaluation and performance standards for their progeny to be registerable. Imagine that.
I know GSDs do in Germany. You STILL get breeders removing almost all working ability in favor of ring fads, from what I've heard from some GSD people, but at least they all have to have a minimum of ability. And kudos to those kennel clubs for actually being interested in the ability of their breed!
One of the other things I like about the JRTCA is that they encourage even un-registered dogs to take part in the activities at the trials. (I once observed a Welsh terrier in a hurdles race at a trial--that's taking it a wee bit far, but eh.) I really hate that the AKC refuses to let anything compete that isn't registered. It makes picking up a mutt and competing in, say, agility so much more difficult.
When looking for a good dog breed for my family, I researched as many AKC breeds as I could and temperament wise found that I loved the english bulldog. Unfortunately, due to out of control breeding practices, these dogs have insanely numerous physical problems. When a breed can no longer whelp on its own, its time to take a step back and look at whats been created. Yes, these dogs have wonderful, loving personalities, but many of them lead lives of severe discomfort.
Fortunately, during my search I came across the IOEBA - the International Olde English Bulldogge Association. Its been around for about 30 yrs now and has attempted to recreate the original bull-baiting dog of the late 1800's, without the aggressive temperament. You essentially have the AKC english bulldog in a taller, very agile, more physically active package that can whelp, see and BREATHE! No, they aren't your jogging partner, but they'll play all day with your kids, then sit on the couch and watch the news with you at night. My careful search of breeders (and I looked all over the country) led me to our dog Tanker. We absolutely love him.
I've heard about OEBs, but only peripherally (and I've also heard of several other breeds-in-making which are attempts to recreate the old bulldog type). In theory I think that it sounds great, but I'm curious--have they gotten true-breeding lines yet? I haven't heard of OEBs or any of the other breeding programs seeking registration.
Sola, no, I don't think they have any true breeding lines yet and there is still quite a bit of variability in the 'breed'. Some have long tails, while my Tanker was born with just a little 2" stumpy tail (that he still wags very cutely!). I see some breeders going for more of the fighting dog look - breeding in pits and am staffs, etc. I don't necessarily like the look of those lines. The guy who started working toward this goal is Mr. Levitt and if you search on Levitt Bulldogs you should be able to find his page. I don't think he completely agrees with the IOEBA. What matters to me is what I found in my dog and his breeder. I like his conformation and talked closely with the breeder about the personalities of her dogs and even went out to visit them before deciding. Based on my needs, I am happy with what I found, even though it doesn't really fit into any particular breed standard.
Which I for one don't personally mind--as long as there is a viable goal behind a breeding program and temperament and health are sought with high emphasis, I'm not too picky about registration, at least not for a breed-in-the-making (and a REAL one, not those bloody designer breeders). I wouldn't even be as irritated with the designer breeders if they were actually making an effort to come up with a real breed--picking one breed to cross with Poodles and sticking to it, and then taking the crosses and breeding them to eachother and stabilizing their gene pool. Instead it's just F1 crosses from the vast majority of the lot... *rolls eyes*
I would agree about the pitty leaning. If you want a pitty-looking bulldog, why not just get a pitty? God knows that breed--type might be a better word--has plenty of variability, including some lines that look like giant English Bulldogs with fewer jowls. I have a friend who is really fond of them and so I've seen some of the various types, and I swear some of the huge overmuscled ones look like the canine equivelant of Sir Cool Skip from FHOTD.
Sweet breed family, but there's a HUGE range of breeding quality there. (That goes for most of the bully breeds, IMO--no offense intended, but I think that you guys get the worst of the crop most of the time.)
Hey, no offense taken. Seems the current 'fad' in AKC english bulldog breeding is to make your bully look as much like a shar pei as possible and guess what - they introduced new skin problems to the breed, just what they needed! When Tanker was a tiny puppy, we took him to petco and encountered another shopper with an eb pup of the same age. It was smaller, very wrinkly (could barely see) and had its legs in casts so that they would develop straight - plus the pup's mom died whelping the litter. *sigh* Even when you buy from a supposedly reputable breeder (and this guy didn't seem like he was quite all there), you're still condoning the mutants they breed. Tanker isn't an over muscled meat head or a gasping, short-legged, wrinkly thing. He's nicely in the middle and to us, he's perfect.
No matter what registry you talk about, they all have the same purpose..... to keep records of basic geneology for your money. With that in mind, papers are only as honest as the person who fills them out, so generally speaking, any registry stands the chance of having dishonest "breeders', etc. While I agree, some registries do have more strict requirements than others, and have more to offer the people who regsiter with them, all of them have less than reputable folks who register with them.
To add to all of this, there are many "rare" breeds out there that are not recognized by the "main" registries such as AKC, etc. These breeds tend to have thier own breed specific registries.
Bottom line, do your research. Buy only from breeders who do something with thier dogs, who health test, work and are involved with the breed. Make sure they have extensive knowledge on the breed, offer at least a 2 year health guarantee, and they should sell on limited registration to pet only homes (and require pet animals to be altered) Make sure to get references from thier fellow breeders, breed club, previous buyers. Make sure they question you as much as you question them. This is the bare minimum when looking for a dog from a breeder.
I have American Bulldogs and have been involved with the breed for about 10 years. I have trained and competed in weightpull events, worked dogs in Schutzhund, hog catching as well as the show ring. My breed is one of the "rare" breeds .... it has been an official breed since the 1960's. Most of the folks involved with my breed (including myself) fought against AKC recognition and so far, we have won. It may be recognized at some time down the road, but for now ... not a chance. Unfortunately, the breed has still been a favorite amongst BackYardBreeders and millers alike, and rescues are plenty full....I can only imagine how much worse it would be with AKC status.
Lastly, a note on the OEB.... I have been an admirer for about 5 years and have a few very good friends and responsible breeders of the OEB. There are most definitely established lines and type within the breed, but with there being 12+ different registries for the breed, type can vary considerably between registries. Also, many of the registries are still allowing F1 crosses.....The origianl OEB consisted of English Bulldog/Bullmastiff/American Bulldog.... now any combo of bull and mastiff breed (even a bit of Catahoula) can consitute an OEB in some registries.
I love all the bully breeds...am a rescuer as well, but definitely see the damage that's occured. But...that is another topic alltogether!
The UKC is a legitimate KC, in fact, for some hound and gun dog breeds it is much the more desirable. They require both parents of a litter to be registered, which is all AKC requires.
One reason AKC is the more 'desirable' registry is that it is the American registry recognized by overseas clubs in most cases. This is more important to some breeds than others, of course, but to a breed with a very limited gene pool it can be critical.
There are some good things about the UKC, apart from its emphasis on performance. They also rrequire a dog shown in the breed to be shown by the owner; no pro handlers in UKC competitions.
Stud books are just stud books. I've seen some pretty sorry registered horses, here and there. In the end, what counts is the skill and art and commitment of the breeder to his breed.
Well, Bullymom, I wish you better luck than the JRT people and BC people had fighting AKC recognition (and I have had people who are just AMAZED when I say that no, not all breeds want to be registered by the AKC, not when its registration standards are so low, particularly working-oriented breeds). It wouldn't be the first time that the AKC essentially appropriated a breed against the wishes of the vast majority of breeders. I hear that some Neapolitan Mastiff breeders were not terribly keen on recognition either.
When I was in training classes shortly after adopting my mutt Oliver, we were in the same class as a little English Bulldog. Sweet dog, but I swear its tail was deformed--lumpy, huge, I wondered how the dog defecated. I feel sorry for people who are fond of that breed, honestly. There are so many health problems that irresponsible breeders have bred in.
Just found your blog and am loving it. That's all. Keep it up!
and thanks ...
LOVE your blog. I found it from FHOTD's link. I am going to refer every dog lover I know to this blog. People need to really understand what is going on in the pet-producing world. If we stop supporting crappy breeders, millers, and BYBers they will (hopefully) stop their crap behavior.
"Which is why breeding for "mini" Aussies really annoys me. It's created a huge problem with millers and BYBs trying to get in on the small dog breed trend."
UUURRRRGGGH! I'm a photographer and was shooting at an acquaintance's miniature horse farm recently. She said that her mom thought up a great way to earn extra money over the winter: Breeding mini Aussies! They're so hot right now, people will pay like $800 for a puppy!
I packed up my gear and left right then. Gross-out. Dogs are not a commodity. :( As far as I know they did not go into the mini Aussie-breeding "business," though.
moontoad I really hope you're ok!
UKC Purple ribbon dogs are eligible AKC. I know because my English Coon Hounds are. I looked into it because I want to show and there aren't nearly as many UKC shows here as there are AKC.
And this is where Canada's does have it a bit better. Our laws state that there can only be one registry for a purebred animal in Canada. Hence when the CKC was looking at making the Border Collie a registered dog with them, a bunch of trialers & farmers got together and created the Canadian Border Collie Association (www.canadianbordercollies.org) before CKC and are now the only registry in Canada that you can register your BC with. You can have a BC registered with the AKC but it isn't eligible for registry with CBCA. Nor can it compete it any CBCA trials. And if you breed a CBCA dog to an AKC dog, it loses its standing with the CBCA and its pups cannot be registered with CBCA either.
FYI - the UKC has changed the rules that you must have wins over competition in your breed in order to obtain a Ch because people were using that loophole to finish dogs without competition.
People also have to remember that registries are only as good as the ethics of the people breeding the dogs. As long as the breeders meet the min requirements set by the registry (and many bogus registries set up after the AKC and UKC started tightening a few things), they can register the pups.
The AKC has made a few boneheaded moves recently. But they are currently (as of 11/2007) debating allowing altered crosses in some events as the UKC already does.
No registry is perfect - some are far worse than others - but it still all boils down to the ethics of the individual breeder.
I must agree with 4thehorses assessment of the AKC's treatment of the border collie breed. My family has bred these dogs for years and we've recently seen an increase in 'designer' border collies that are bred to fit the AKC's conformation type.
Quite frankly, we take a poor view of the AKC; while they do make an excellent effort to police breeders and promote health in dogs, they still encourage breeding to a standard, something that can only harm breeds by encouraging inbreeding (for those who think they are too clever to be caught) and breeding for physical features rather than temperament.
We're registered with the American Herding Breed Association (I think that's what 4thehorses is referring to)
The oldest dog breed registry in the US is the Field Dog Stud Book. You can dual reg with AKC, but most of us in FDSB don't. We have FDSB English setters.
This http://www.dogster.com/dogs/167046
This
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/167626
and This
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/167072
are all English Setters, just not the huge, blocky, brainless balls of hair you see in AKC shows.
FDSB does performance trials, not conformation shows.
..."But, again, a CKC on the dog's papers doesn't mean quality. It just means that it's really truly that breed"....
As does the AKC!
CKC (Canadian Kennel Club)certification recognized in AKC events and vice versa, many breeders carry dual registries
CKC no better or worse than AKC
Don't believe for a *minute* that the UKC is a "peformance" registry.
The UKC, a privately-owned for-profit business, is now owned by a former AKC vice-president. It is run in order to line Wayne Cavanaugh's pockets.
One of his first acts upon buying the company was to unilaterally declare that a working breed, the English shepherd, was now to be a "show dog." UKC was going to offer show classes for it, abrogating a decades-old agreement with the breed club. When the breed club protested (and held a vote of all our members, in which 98% unequivocally opposed conformation showing), we were told to get bent. I have the archives of the truly nasty correspondence from the UKC minions, in which we stoopid dirt farmers are told that we have no idea how to "improve" our silly little rustic breed into proper show dogs, so UKC is going to make sure someone does it for us.
The UKC encouraged the creation of a new "association" as their "parent club." For some time, this "association" had a board of directors composed of show dog people who had *never owned* an English shepherd. Some of them, I'm not certain had ever *seen* an English shepherd.
While over 98% of ES owners remain opposed to show pageants for our working dogs, there are two or three families who now churn out "champion" and "grand champion" ES by taking two dogs to each show and having them take turns beating one another. Special Olympics for show dogs -- everybody gets a hug and a championship.
There aren't many ES puppymills, but there are a few. They now show the "Grand champion" ancestors of their little commodities in red on the online pedigrees, right above the paypal button.
I'm happy to report that the English Shepherd Club -- the legitimate breed club -- has instituted its own member-owned, non-profit registry for breed conservation, and that our membership numbers have just about tripled while registrations keep rising. The UKC lapdogs are struggling to keep their organization afloat. (UKC won't publish registration numbers or the studbook, but I can bet their registrations are dropping.)
I don't know of any multi-breed registries (other than American Field) that I'd class as "good." If a pure breed has a single-breed club registry devoted to breed conservation (American Border Collie Association, Jack Russell Terrier Club of America, English Shepherd Club, Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Association, Wire Haired Pointing Griffon Club), then IMO, *that* is the legitimate registry for that breed. I'd *start* there if looking for a pup of that breed -- and "start" means just that. The breeders get the same vetting regardless.
If the breed has no single-breed nonprofit registry in this country, then registration is more or less irrelevant. Sure, a legitimate poodle breeder is not doing business with the Continental Kennel Club, but so many dirtbags are doing business with the ACK -- who are happy to take their money -- that it is no evidence of anything that the pups are so registered.
And UKC has degenerated into, basically, the Continental Kennel Club with dog shows.
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